tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27612445.post1199451616822940427..comments2024-03-23T12:05:23.537-05:00Comments on The Wild Reed: Joan Chittister on the Restoration of the Tridentine Latin RiteMichael J. Baylyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03087458490602152648noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27612445.post-30844095582644824992015-06-12T02:54:33.929-05:002015-06-12T02:54:33.929-05:00The Novus Ordo has not created community - It has ...The Novus Ordo has not created community - It has disintegrated a Church. There is nothing to draw young people to Mass when the liturgy fails to step above the profane into the transcendent. <br /><br />The local parishes are dying because they are filled with old VII priests disenchanted from a failed project. There is only one thing to do - Renew the Church. However, this renewal will only come if it sheds the emperor's garments of 1960s "inclusivity", and takes up the mantel of tried and tested Tridentine tradition. <br /><br />I speak as a convert, who like Newman, and Waugh came to the Church from another fold to embrace the heritage of Christianity. What I found when I crossed the Tiber was a Church less stopped in tradition than I could have imagined. But for the Grace of God who blessed my city with an Oratory I would not go to Mass. <br /><br />What we will see is more people going to SSPX, Oratories, and other Latin institutes, while the parishes become ghost towns. Then finally the church might wake up. <br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Danielnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27612445.post-78402291580694705892010-04-29T16:00:34.362-05:002010-04-29T16:00:34.362-05:00Chittister sorta gives away the game in this piece...Chittister sorta gives away the game in this piece. For her, Vatican II created a new church. <br /><br />At least the Reformers mostly had the good grace to realize that they were breaking with the old church and making a new one. So many Vatican II liberals have made the same break but pretended not to.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27612445.post-74751704602872519182007-07-20T10:10:00.000-05:002007-07-20T10:10:00.000-05:00Kelly - I obviously disagree with you. I see the ...Kelly - I obviously disagree with you. I see the priest as the teacher - the sharer - the one who leads by example. I like to see the face of my teacher.<BR/><BR/>With his back to me, I don't feel shared with - I feel ignored.<BR/><BR/>During mass - I'm not necessarily looking to be taught by my fellow parishoners - although such teaching is possible within other contexts. I am looking to learn and worship, and the priest is the learned teacher -the rabbai - the conduit between me and the Divine Reality. The other parishoners are fellow travelers, fellow learners - those who are looking to the teacher. Some physical presence has to be the "leader" but, the leader, should really be "first among equals". The priest's role is to serve God and man - as the conduit between the two. That's his calling.<BR/><BR/>I don't know about you, but it's rough for me to learn about relationships, by looking at the back of someone's head. And the priest is teaching about relationship - worship of the Divine.<BR/><BR/>As for this idea of the Roman aspect of the The Roman Catholic Church, it's laughable to me. In honesty, it is no more "Roman" than you or I. There is NO Roman Empire anymore. There hasn't been for quite sometime. It's just a city in Italy. The Catholic Church is a world wide entity - and listening to the mass in vernacular is meaningful to many people, from many different cultures. To assume that latin will be meaningful to all is arrogant. <BR/><BR/>My mother, who grew up with the Latin Mass, much prefers hearing it in the vernacular. She doesn't appreciate Latin, and found it very distancing and distracting. Ditto to the priest facing her.<BR/><BR/>However - I am fine with the Latin Mass being an option - as long as this isn't a backdoor way for the Pope to try to turn back the clock. If there are people who feel close to the Divine by uttering Latin, so be it. Diversity of experience is the norm - homogeneity is not.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27612445.post-41942360807784035492007-07-17T21:18:00.000-05:002007-07-17T21:18:00.000-05:00Eileen:But, the point about the priest being the s...Eileen:<BR/><BR/><I>But, the point about the priest being the special one, the only one with a real relationship to God in the room - the only one worthy - well - that is abhorrent to me.</I><BR/><BR/>Then I would expect you to <I>applaud</I> the notion, at least, of the celebrant facing ad orientem...that is, facing the same way the faithful do.<BR/><BR/>(Which, as you no doubt know, is perfectly allowable in the Novus Ordo Mass.)<BR/><BR/>With the priest facing the people, it is all too easy for celebrant to be the center of attention. As is, as I'm sure you've experienced, so often the case. (Of course, some people, for reasons of their own, seem to prefer giving homage to the celebrant rather to God. Maybe because it's easier?)<BR/><BR/>Regarding the priest's "back to the people?" By this logic, unless you sit in the very, very last pew, you yourself are placing yourself with your back to your fellow worshipper.<BR/><BR/>No, indeed, the priest, when facing the same way you do, is adoring God the same way you do...how difficult is that to comprehend?<BR/><BR/>I, too, appreciate the pictures in this post. I especially enjoy the image of the altar server adoring Jesus...rather than adoring the priest.<BR/><BR/>By the way, regarding the "foreign language" reference, two comments:<BR/><BR/>1.) Latin is the language of the <I>Roman</I> Catholic Church and is therefore not foreign at all.<BR/><BR/>2.) It's surprising to me that a site that labels itself as "progressive" would look askance at a Mass celebrated in a "foreign" language. Are we not all members of the same Body?<BR/><BR/>I hope this is helpful.Kelly Thatcherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05208387893330590397noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27612445.post-47724602630498214542007-07-13T10:09:00.000-05:002007-07-13T10:09:00.000-05:00So Michael - how many weird shouting emails did yo...So Michael - how many weird shouting emails did you receive simply for citing Sr. Joan's article?<BR/><BR/>I got two. With big caps and all.<BR/><BR/>I have started a dialouge with one of the shouters though, with much less shouting involved in the subsequent exchange.<BR/><BR/>It's something, I suppose.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27612445.post-8380978499771017542007-07-12T10:23:00.000-05:002007-07-12T10:23:00.000-05:00Michael - I agree with Sr. Joan entirely.I don't h...Michael - <BR/><BR/>I agree with Sr. Joan entirely.<BR/><BR/>I don't have a problem with the mass being said in Latin - if it's still a Vatican II liturgy - prayers in Latin for those who choose it.<BR/><BR/>But, the point about the priest being the special one, the only one with a real relationship to God in the room - the only one worthy - well - that is abhorrent to me.<BR/><BR/>Christ sent his followers out to be, above all else, SERVANTS to God and others. They should be among the least of men. Maybe what I mean is the least common denominator among HUMAN beings - the first, the last, the every human.<BR/><BR/>Priests aren't a conduit to God for themselves alone, and I believe that is what the Tridentine style mass imparts.<BR/><BR/>B16 is working hard to return to the non-existent Mayberry (my obnoxious phrase for the desire to return to a perfect time, some where in the past, that never existed).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27612445.post-51954292481467538552007-07-11T17:39:00.000-05:002007-07-11T17:39:00.000-05:00Thank you - I find your blog interesting too :-)...Thank you - I find your blog interesting too :-)crystalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05681674503952991492noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27612445.post-86139196808258489802007-07-11T15:10:00.000-05:002007-07-11T15:10:00.000-05:00Thanks, Crystal.I have to say I really appreciated...Thanks, Crystal.<BR/><BR/>I have to say I really appreciated and was moved by your recent post, <A HREF="http://povcrystal.blogspot.com/2007/07/jesus-meme.html" REL="nofollow">Jesus Meme</A>. <BR/><BR/>Indeed, your entire blog is insightful and, well, just very <EM>real</EM>. I always look forward to visiting it.<BR/><BR/>Peace,<BR/><BR/>MichaelMichael J. Baylyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03087458490602152648noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27612445.post-15854320371361872872007-07-11T13:24:00.000-05:002007-07-11T13:24:00.000-05:00I like the pictures you chose ... a good way to il...I like the pictures you chose ... a good way to illustrate the differences in the Masses.crystalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05681674503952991492noreply@blogger.com