tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27612445.post275644215687421911..comments2024-03-23T12:05:23.537-05:00Comments on The Wild Reed: Thoughts on Archbishop Nichols' Support for Civil UnionsMichael J. Baylyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03087458490602152648noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27612445.post-45045542441993470342011-12-09T07:35:54.752-06:002011-12-09T07:35:54.752-06:00It is true that most Catholics have had their cons...It is true that most Catholics have had their consciences informed by secular society and are opposed to Church teaching on sexual ethics. Yet, their disobedience is not a problem. When half of Europe fell away from the Church at the Reformation, Our Lord brought millions of Aztecs into the fold through Our Lady of Guadalupe. And, these humble Catholics are a blessing. It will be the same when the great apostasy arrives and the arrogant American Catholics who reject Church teaching will fall away and choose their own "Pope". Our Lord will bring others into the fold who are humble, faithful and loving. St. Juan Diego: pray for us.Claudiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12594584210799385843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27612445.post-57764049918232311452011-12-07T09:00:22.762-06:002011-12-07T09:00:22.762-06:00Michael, I agree that this is a thoughtful and use...Michael, I agree that this is a thoughtful and useful analysis. <br /><br />I'm particularly interested in your observations - undoubtedly correct - about how church teaching evolves. "Redefinition" of marriage is not new. Both secular and Christian understanding of marriage have evolved continuously over two millenia: the current popular understanding of "traditional" marriage is a relatively modern invention, going back only a few centuries. <br /><br />Our understanding of marriage will continue to evolve, and with it, the entire body of orthodox teaching on sexual ethics. <br /><br />We already know from empirical research that on almost every single element of Catholic sexual doctrine, most Catholics disagree (the only exceptions I can think of, are things like incest, paedophilia and bestiality which are outlawed in secular law).<br /><br />Anecdotal evidence is that a substantial proportion, possibly a majority, of professional theologians agree there is an urgent need for reform. <br /><br />My suspicion is that most priests in pastoral ministry also agree, and with them many bishops. <br /><br />The only real question, is not whether change will come, but how are they to announce the change, and say clearly "We were wrong" - without losing face.Terence Weldonhttp://queeringthechurch.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27612445.post-62809844171728902352011-12-06T08:41:58.669-06:002011-12-06T08:41:58.669-06:00James C.
That's why those of you who have &qu...James C.<br /><br />That's why those of you who have "evolved beyond a certain level of faith development" should prayerfully consider whether you should join the 35,000 other protestant denominations and go and form your own denomination.<br /><br />Of course then, the press won't pay any attention to you and you'll have to purchase your own incense, bells and artwork.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08332138030182107580noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27612445.post-83924104352925595102011-12-05T12:27:30.826-06:002011-12-05T12:27:30.826-06:00"Now I must admit that I sometimes wonder if ..."Now I must admit that I sometimes wonder if the rigid and narrow expression of Roman Catholicism that currently reigns supreme may actually be needed as a refuge for those incapable and/or unwilling to evolve beyond a certain level of faith development – a level that is obsessed with conformity to rules and rubrics, craves coercive and punitive authority figures, and has a seemingly insatiable lust for certitude. I don't like thinking of this primitive level of faith actually controlling and defining the Church."<br /><br />Talk about offensive and dishonest stereotypes!Geraldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02204199533749851084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27612445.post-12350725140975012822011-12-04T17:00:15.109-06:002011-12-04T17:00:15.109-06:00Thank you so much for sharing this news! Encouragi...Thank you so much for sharing this news! Encouraging news that change and reflection at the grassroots level of the Church can move some of its hierarchical leaders to reconsider their previously held positions. <br /><br />Because, in the theological lens of the bishops, marriage will always be an institution irreperably sealed only between a man and a woman - such a statement endorsing civil unions form Archbishop Nicholas is a huge step forward. <br /><br />Now, how long will it take to hear such a declaration from the USCCB? One can only imagine...Phillip Clarknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27612445.post-40633597844999114872011-12-02T14:45:29.942-06:002011-12-02T14:45:29.942-06:00Chris,
Thanks so much for the link and your clari...Chris,<br /><br />Thanks so much for the <a href="http://queeringthechurch.com/2011/11/25/archbishops-balanced-sane-response-to-british-gay-marriage/" rel="nofollow">link</a> and your clarifying points and background information. It's all greatly appreciated.<br /><br />Peace,<br /><br />MichaelMichael J. Baylyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03087458490602152648noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27612445.post-27168056759733549142011-12-02T13:42:29.980-06:002011-12-02T13:42:29.980-06:00From Chris Morley
There's an excellent detail...From Chris Morley<br /><br />There's an excellent detailed commentary on all Archbishop Nichols' comments about gay marriage at the UK based blog Queering the Church <br />http://queeringthechurch.com/2011/11/25/archbishops-balanced-sane-response-to-british-gay-marriage/<br /><br />Archbishop Nichols is the new head of the Church in England and Wales since 2009. The opposition in 2003 from the English and Welsh Bishops Conference opposition to gay civil partnerships was led by his predecessor, Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O'Connor. <br /><br />We've had civil partnerships in the UK since December 2005 and the majority of Catholics support these as well as civil gay marriage, (which the government plans to introduce before the next election). <br /><br />The Archbishop is being pragmatic; and it's worth noting that he also provides for gay Catholics in central London with regular masses in Soho (the gay heart of the city). <br /><br />No such accepting pragmatism is shown in Scotland by the hierarchy, even though Catholic public opinion is similarly favourable. There, Cardinal Keith O'Brien, of St Andrews and Edinburgh, is leading a USA-style trenchant campaign of outright opposition to gay marriage, distributing 200,000 postcards to all the parishes. Most of these postcards are wasted. The Scottish government has only received 14,000 of them in opposition.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27612445.post-32277167845281205122011-12-02T10:10:11.671-06:002011-12-02T10:10:11.671-06:00Michael, thanks for this thoughtful and well-reaso...Michael, thanks for this thoughtful and well-reasoned analysis of the distinction between civil and sacramental marriage. I'm struck above all by your very sane observation that some church leaders today seem to have forgotten a point central in our Catholic tradition: namely, that we arrive at the through over time, though a dialectic process of reflection, prayer, and discussion.<br /><br />A process radically undermined by those proponents of Catholic "truth" who want to read some people right out of the conversation--since they and they alone have the "truth." (But that kind of truth has to be idolatrous, doesn't it, since no one owns God or divine transformative truth . . . . )William D. Lindseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07246026074693891965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27612445.post-73786614148739243782011-12-02T09:49:58.185-06:002011-12-02T09:49:58.185-06:00"Okay, first, I'm not sure what Terry mea..."Okay, first, I'm not sure what Terry means by "gay activist"...." <br /><br />Do you suppose he meant Philip Willkie? I would have thought you'd have written about his letter to the Strib yesterday. I'm under the impression that heterodoxy is not tolerated in the homosexual community.<br /><br />And you didn't comment on Abp Favalora in Miami, either.<br /><br />Whatever<br /><br />If the Church thought that "redefining marriage" was your only issue, Michael, they might agree to sit down and talk.<br /><br />But you know you have an entire encyclopedia of issues, starting with some of the Ten Commandments, the Creeds, the Catechism, Liturgical Practices, ordination of women, clerical celibacy, lay celibacy, etc.<br /><br />There, the Church will not give one inch on "re-defining marriage" because they would know that you would have another issue the next week.<br /><br />Yesterday I read now that DADT is going down, the Transgender lobby wants to get into the Army, too.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08332138030182107580noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27612445.post-62384105968182203092011-12-02T09:11:23.477-06:002011-12-02T09:11:23.477-06:00Wow, at least there is some compassion and sanity ...Wow, at least there is some compassion and sanity among some of the Roman hierarchs.Bobnoreply@blogger.com