Jeff Sharlet on the Fascist Ideology of Donald Trump and Marjorie Taylor Greene

Jeff Sharlet is an award-winning journalist and author who has spent the last decade reporting on the growing threat of fascism across the United States. In his new book, The Undertow: Scenes from a Slow Civil War, Sharlet says the language of “civil war” has become central to right-wing rhetoric and mainstreamed former President Donald Trump, Congressmember Marjorie Taylor Greene, and other Republicans.

Sharlet was interviewed this past Wednesday by Democracy Now!’s Amy Goodman and Nermeen Shaikh. At one point he shared his insights on the ideology of Donald Trump. Following is what he said.

There’s a short word for [Donald Trump’s ideology], which is “fascism,” and really in the classical sense, not in the way that we might want to describe various right-wing figures, but [in] the true [sense], [it’s] the cult of personality and the pleasure in violence, along with the sort of description of the rest of the world around him as decadent.

I think, though, that the way we understand the undertow that pulls people like Ashli Babbitt or so many of the other figures I encountered in my travels into that sort of black hole of fascism, is to recognize that it’s not so much about any particular issue, but rather it is an aesthetic, as fascism is. [It’s] also a theology, and that’s why I [highlight] the prosperity gospel [which] comes from evangelicals, from the idea that God wants you to be rich. And the way that you know that is because he’s made your pastor so rich. Trump’s golden plane is evidence of God’s intention.

The next stage of that, which I refer to as a kind of Americanized Gnostic gospel, a gospel of conspiracies, of . . . secret initiates and of what Gnosticism calls waterless canals, but what Trump calls the deep state. This is sort of appealing, the idea that you have this inside track of knowledge.

And then we come to martyrdom, which, of course, we know has always had this kind of pull; the victimization of white grievance, which is the current that pulls white supremacy along.

At another point in the interview, Sharlet was asked about Leslie Stahl’s recent 60 Minutes interview with far-right Georgia Republican Congressmember Marjorie Taylor Greene. Following is his response.

I think of [my book] The Undertow as sort of my inquiry into how to tell stories about fascism, with the understanding that a lot of the ways that we’ve used in the past, they don’t work anymore. . . . Lesley Stahl on 60 Minutes gave us a master class on how not to tell stories about fascism.

. . . I think in Lesley Stahl’s imagination [Greene] still occupies a center. [Stahl thinks] she can dispatch that which she finds distasteful with an arched eyebrow. She has failed to recognize that Marjorie Taylor Greene is not a rising star in the old vernacular of politics, because she’s not trying to enter the same cosmos. [Greene and others are] trying to redesign the worldview to create a kind of – I think of fascism as a kind of lucid dreaming in which you can make these seemingly absurd claims [that Greene and Trump routinely make]. Lesley Stahl can’t really contend with that [as she’s] using the frame that [says] “we’re going to have a polite conversation.”

. . . I think, too, [that] just simply [countering Taylor Greene’s claim that all Democrats are pedophiles] by saying, “But they are not pedophiles,” [fails to recognize] this sexual mythology of the right. It is a mythology, and you can’t fact-check a myth. The myth is not based on a claim to reality. Marjorie Taylor Greene knows that. She knows that her power is in spectacle, as fascism is always understood. It’s an aesthetic politics.

So, what [Stahl] did . . . really, in some ways, amounted to a defense of Marjorie Taylor Greene. When you show Lesley Stahl strolling along with Marjorie Taylor Greene and marveling at her beautifully kept lawn, it’s saying, “Oh, see, you thought this person was dangerous, but here I am walking safely along with them.” Marjorie Taylor Greene is dangerous. We need to understand the danger. It’s not that she’s going to go feral and attack Lesley Stahl. It’s that she’s going to remake this country in a fascist image.

For Democracy Now!’s complete interview with Jeff Sharlet, click here.


Related Off-site Links:
“I See This as a Global Fascist Moment”: Author Jeff Sharlet on Interviewing Far-right Americans – Ann Neumann (The Guardian, March 30, 2023).
We’re Reaching Fascism’s “Inflection Point” – Again – James Roosevelt, Jr, et al (The Hill, February 8, 2023).
Sociologist Says the U.S. Is Still on the Path to Becoming a “Fascist Country” – Cheryl Teh (Business Insider, November 25, 2022).
Who Is Fighting the Rise of Fascism in the U.S.? – Brynn Tannehill (Dame, March 9, 2023).
“Fascism, Full Stop”: Progressives in Congress Condemn Expulsion of Tennessee Democrats – Jake Johnson (Common Dreams, April 7, 2023).
For Richer or Poorer – Prosperity Gospel Misleads On Needs – Eric L. McDaniel (Newsweek, September 7, 2022).
Understanding the Threat of White Christian Nationalism – William D. Lindsey (Bilgrimage, September 7, 2022).

See also the previous Wild Reed posts:
• Chauncey Devega on the Ongoing Danger of the Trump Cult
• Historian Nancy MacLean: The Threat to American Democracy Is at “Red-Alert”
• Ruth Ben-Ghiat on the Return of Fascism in Italy
• Judith Butler on the Reactionary Movement and Fascist Trend Opposed to Diverse Ideas About Gender
• Jelani Cobb: Quote of the Day – September 4, 2022
• “Come for the Racism, Stay for the Autocracy”
• William D. Lindsey: Quote of the Day – August 12, 2022
• Heather Cox Richardson: It’s Up to Us to Prove That Democracy Is Still a Viable Form of Government
• “How Can One Overreact to a Mortal Threat to American Democracy?”
• A Deeper Perspective on What’s Really Attacking Democracy
• “The Coup Attempt on Jan. 6th Was a Warning for What’s to Come If We Don’t Act”
• “My Biggest Worry Is for My Country”
• Republicans Pose an “Existential Threat” to American Democracy
• The Big Switch
• The Republican Party in a Nutshell
• Republicans Don’t Care About American Democracy
• “The Republican Party Has Now Made It Official: They Are a Cult”
• Heather Cox Richardson on Combating the Republican Party’s “Rigging of the System”
• David Remnick: Quote of the Day – February 13, 2021
• Dan Rather on America’s “Moment of Reckoning”
• Michael Harriot: Quote of the Day – January 6, 2021
• Insurrection at the United States Capitol
• “We Have an Emergency On Our Hands”: Marianne Williamson On the “Freefall” of American Democracy
• Fascism Is Upon Us
• On International Human Rights Day, Saying “No” to Donald Trump and His Fascist Agenda
• Trump’s Playbook